We met with Damien Sisson, a legendary, Grammy nominated bass player for Death Angel, to discuss his new record label: Shake N Bake Records, creative process and love for music.
Thanks for joining us. How did you come up with the idea of starting Shake N Bake Records?
Damien: Well, Shake N Bake, like many things, came about from necessity. The music industry is changing fast, day by day, year by year, down to the day by day. You know, I’m an old-schooler. I grew up in the days where you pay your dues playing shows. You have a band, you form your identity and your fanbase around this band, and you go out and conquer the world together. But it’s changed so much these days and its best put by Jack Gibson from Exodus when he said „I’m a T-shirt salesman. I go state to state and play shows to sell T-shirts.” Because the industry is changing, the reason for starting Shake N Bake-to bring it back full circle to why I got into music. I want to be able to express myself. I want to be able to communicate. I want to be able to collaborate with my friends…and not have to be inhibited by a style or a genre or the dictation of a label or the constraints of having to fulfil a tour or financial obligations. These things all can factor and probably will at some point factor into Shake N Bake Records, but the idea really is to be able to play and write music and release it because that’s what I love to do and that’s what my friends and my family love to do as well. This is not for the money, or the glory-those things are all wonderful-but we do this because we love music. We love playing music, we love writing music, and we love collaborating with each other. So that’s really the foundation of Shake N Bake Records.
Can you tell me how it’s different for you from your day-to-day job, so to say, with Death Angel? What’s the biggest challenge, comparing the two? How is the process different? Because it may be obvious to me and you, but it may not be to our readers.
Damien: Well, they are two different worlds. Operating within Death Angel, I am working within an entity in which I’m a working part. I’m a gear in the watch. I’m not the watch itself-I’m a gear within it. So, I always want to be mindful and respectful of the culture that was there before I arrived. And that’s one of the beautiful things about heavy metal. It’s one of the beautiful things about thrash metal culture. That’s one of the factors: that I think more people are discovering with these festivals—that heavy metal is an international collective of people, and it supersedes the band members and the artists themselves. And so, when I’m with Death Angel, I have to take into mind that there’s a whole culture, an international culture that existed well before I showed up. It’ll be there well past when I’ve expired. So, when I’m with Death Angel, I’m trying to have a lot of reverence for that. With Shake N Bake, it’s almost quite the opposite where really, it’s my own culture. And for lack of more eloquent words, my culture really comes from, „F**** it, I’m going to do it the way I want to do it.” I’m going to do this becauseI don’t want to be a critic of other people and say, „Oh, here’s how I would have done it,” or „This is the way I like it.” With Shake N Bake, it’s the opportunity for me to really not have to feel obligated to rules, not feel obligated to genres, not feel obligated to really anything, but following my own impulse of wanting to write and play music.
Share and create and communicate through music?
Damien: Simple enough, yeah. The difference with Death Angel, I want to be respectful of everything that’s built in and baked into that culture. With Shake N Bake, I’m saying it doesn’t really matter what culture you come from, what matters is what you bring from your culture to enhance the culture at Shake N Bake. It’s not specific. It’s non-denominational and does a cross-sectional across the demographic so as to appeal to anybody. You don’t have to be from here to get down here, as long as you know how to getdown. So, we focus on the music and less on the image.
How is your day-to-day life with Shake and Bake? Do you have any routine, or is it just all about the creative process?
Damien: With Shake N Bake, I try to make it Monday through Friday. I end up doing stuff on Saturday and Sunday too, especially if I need to re-record bass or guitar parts or a vocalist sends something back, I don’t want to make them wait. I’ll jump on it. But a lot of it… I’ve never been on a computer so much in my life. Starting a label is starting a business. There are many things to learn in starting a business. You have to get an EIN number (taxation number) . You have to file things with the Secretary of State. You have to get a business bank account…There’s a lot of administrative,-“unfun stuff”- that musicians are scared to death of, you know? I was scared to death of this stuff too, but like eating an elephant, you just take it one piece at a time. You know what I mean? And the cool thing about doing this stuff is when I talk to my friends, other musicians, other artists who are struggling with these things, I can say, „Hey, don’t think you got to take it all on. Here’s a little piece of something we can learn about.” And that’s how it is. It’s a big bureaucratic process, starting a business, starting a label, getting involved with all this stuff. One of the big appeals of playing music, besides being able to just find a way to speak to people through music, was that it was like a cheat code. I was like, „Ooh, I don’t have to play the bureaucratic game. I don’t have to be in an office. I don’t have to climb the ladder.” And, you know, I’m not necessarily climbing a ladder, but I’m in the office and I’m doing the bureaucratic game (laughs). I’ve got to follow the numbers and all these things. In that manner, as an artist, a musician, once you get a lot of that preliminary stuff set up, you’re good to go. You don’t have to keep revisiting the stuff. Maybe there’s just a few things you need to check back in with, yearly fees and things like that. But largely, I’m on the computer so much because there’s just so many things to do at this stage in the business, I don’t have a huge team. The team I have are awesome, but they’ve already got day jobs. Everybody’s got lives. Everybody has bills. So, I’m finding myself doing things like graphic editing, video editing, taking care of all distribution. The difficult thing is getting my artists and myself to tackle Performance Rights, Publishing, Streaming Income, Mechanical Licenses…. how to make sure that any money that’s on the table is essentially being accounted for. There may not be a lot, but if it’s there, it’s better it goes to us than slips away to different places as when you don’t claim it….may as well go to us… So, a lot of it is being on the computer, video editing, computer editing. Honestly, I could continue to talk about this like forever because there’s so many things to do when you’re running a business. But, for the sake of brevity and being an interview and not boring people, I’ll just end it here: a lot of the time on the computer-editing. It’s still creative – that is the cool thing – as much as it is on a computer, I like doing computer graphics. I like doing video editing, it’s still creative. It’s still rhythmic. You still got to be in time. It’s just different than playing an instrument.
Tell me about „Cascading Lights”. How did you come up with this song?
Damien: My intent for the songs that I’m on, I like collaboration. I think there’s amazing
geniuses who could just do it all themselves, and they’re one-man shows and they’re amazing. I love them. I’m not one of them. I’ve always liked collaboration. I’ve always found that the surprise and the kind of essence and mystique of trying to capture it with a buddy, or buddies, somehow has always yielded results different though better than what I expected. So, I prefer to collaborate. „Cascading Lights” was
a song, that just didn’t find a place in Death Angel, or elsewhere. And since I’ve been with Death Angel, many creative endeavours and other projects just kind of went to the wayside. So „Cascading Lights” is a song I had for a long time. and started off as me trying to teach myself techniques. In this song-it’s not the most conventional bass technique. You can’t necessarily tell when you listen to it because I don’t think bass necessarily needs to pop out and slap you in the face, but the techniques are a bit unconventional and started off as techniques that I was trying to practice. Having had roommates and partners around, I’ve never really had a safe place to practice. So, I’ve developed this habit that if I’m going to practice stuff around people, I need to make it at least minimally listenable, maybe not musical, but minimally listenable. This song really just came out of trying to make technique listenable. And, once I got a part or two, the rest kind of writes itself. I subscribe strongly to the Beatles formula, the A-A-B-A formula, which would be a verse/chorus, middle section, verse/chorus; the Phil Spector wall of sound, very similar formula. I’d say this about jazz and blues as well: they have familiar formulas, and the idea isn’t necessarily to trick listeners as much as allow everybody to find their own way to interpret and participate with the music So most of my songs and most of these songs are pretty straightforward. I don’t need a Dream Theater gaggle of parts to make a song, Sometimes, I only really need one part to make a song. This song really kind of came out of one part and then continued as an exercise in songwriting. No song is a perfect song. A perfect song has never been written, so in practicing the technique, it’s also an exercise in songwriting. Sometime during the pandemic, I sent the track to Jordan Wolf-been a friend of mine from back in the day, we were in Premeditated together. Even though the band went our separate ways, his musical contributions always struck me as ornate, he developed his parts. I don’t know how to put it-It’s not like one line repeats-but his parts develop over the measures,…I
always thought that was interesting characteristic-something I hadn’t experienced from other vocalists. During the pandemic I send him the song. At some point he sent it back. I kind of stalled on it for a while until finally I met the drummer, Alonzo, who lives here in Mexico in Toluca, not too far away. There was about a month or two where I was going over to his house and we were just trying to record as many songs as we could until our lives got busy again. And this was one of the first ones. The vocals came back. And actually, the last thing to go down was Bud Burke on the guitars. We had it for a while. We went through kind of different phases with synthesizers, and I was like – I’ve used Bud for so many things, he always comes through-so the last minute, I send it to him and he sent it back and then we got it, we went in and we got it mixed. So short story long…
And what about „When They Will Come” with Dylan?
Damien: Dylan was another fellow from back in Santa Rosa around the same time. These are all individuals I’ve known since before the thrashing, prior to Death Angel. Dylan and I used to perform together. While we were in high school we had high school friends in common, though we didn’t attend the same high school. Just about a year after high school, a friend of mine who resided up the street played drums. He mentioned he was starting a Seattle-inspired grunge band. They covered some Alice in Chains, Mad Season, and Soundgarden. I thought, “Wow, this guy can sing this, let me go and listen”. Dylan is one of those individuals who doesn’t require a warm-up or practice. He simply approaches the microphone and delivers a ripping vocal take. Knowing someone with vocal talent is significant, whether or not life presents the opportunity to start a band with them…but, singers that are memorable…they’re not easily found. There are many frontmen, performers, and entertainers, but their talents don’t always translate effectively to a recording environment. And so, I’ve always remembered Dylan. This composition originated from our earlier days and features a progression I recall him taking a liking to. He would express, “Oh, dude, oh, that progression…” It was essentially the chorus. There was never a verse, and we’d improvise extensively on that part. Eventually, I arranged it, structuring it into an AABA format. I included a verse, sent it to him, and he slightly rearranged it. Regarding the guitar work, Bud didn’t do all the guitars but I was like “hey Bud, can just, you know, rip a solo?” I figure Bud probably woke up quickly one morning, smashed something out, and flipped it back. He’s simply a virtuoso like that. Also, we enlisted Fede, an incredible drummer from Mexico. A total gentleman, he arrived at the studio, likely not having heard the song, performed about three or four takes. We end up using take number one. High-five dude, puts his shirt back on, and leaves. Fede is an absolute rock star. Then to the studio with Alex Torres, who mixed everything; he’s really, in many ways, a mentor. He’s passed on significant technical knowledge about configuring DAWs, sound design, and mixing. As he’s a bit younger, he’s well-attuned to elements that I’ve overlooked. It’s advantageous to be around younger folks; they understand technology! We went to the studio, and that one came together. As much as these songs have gone through processes and forms, these songs were “never jammed in a room together.”
And what about the lyrics? Are you the one behind the lyrics for those songs?
Damien: No, I’ve always appreciated Jordan Wolf’s lyrical contributions; he consistently
offers insightful perspectives. Therefore, much like with the guitar and drum parts, I generally provide a framework and then encourage everyone to invest themselves in their respective contributions. Jordan composed his own lyrics. Similarly, Dylan penned his lyrics. While in the studio, if I’m asked to choose between one line and another, I offer my opinion, but recognize that the final decision rests with the lyricist. I always advocate for individuals to take ownership of their work. In the past, I’ve engaged in “for hire” projects; cover bands, wedding bands, other artists’ endeavors – I find it akin to a job; when individuals feel a sense of ownership, investment, and personal pride, they are more likely to be motivated to promote and contribute more work. Consequently, as a producer and arranger, I believe it’s crucial sometimes to step back and empower others. Ultimately, those lyrics are their own, and I like ‘um. I’m always pleased when others volunteer to write lyrics, as it’s often the aspect of songwriting that I find most challenging.
And what about „The Forgotten Ones”? How was it to work with Rob Cavestany on something else than Death Angel?
Damien: Yes, „Forgotten Ones” was an enjoyable project. It’s not a particularly old composition, likely written around mid-tour in 2016 with Death Angel. Collaborating with Rob was excellent. I sent him the track, along with a few other songs, during the pandemic, and he returned this one, expressing his appreciation. I genuinely didn’t know what to anticipate, as we typically perform metal together. However, he completely abandoned the metal vibe, to the point where I enlisted Alex to add some chunk and metal to the composition. I value what Rob contributed because in essence, what he did is intrinsic to the ethos of Shake N Bake. I’ve known Rob Cavestany well, having toured with him for about 15 years. We’ve shared many intimate discussions in the lounge on the tour bus, and I recognize him as an incredible “metalhead”. And Death Angel has payed its dues and earned its credibility. But, I also know Rob has a deep passion, enthusiasm, and appreciation for music that goes beyond metal. The purpose of Shake N Bake has always been to allow for THIS. You’d be surprised how many “metal dudes” have love for Prince.-devoted to their scene, culture, and performance-but also appreciating other forms of music. Shake N Bake provides this opportunity without sacrificing our established brands, disappointing our fans, but still satisfying our creative urges. We love the expression of metal, but we are still musicians and not solely “metalheads”. Collaborating with Rob on this project was a success. He sent the tracks back, and I didn’t know what to expect. I loved it, even tho it was quite “unmetal”. Alex, the mixing and mastering engineer, decided we should incorporate an eight-string guitar to get some chunk. And, Rob’s solo is kick-ass-I enjoyed everything he contributed, and I would describe the experience as exceptionally pleasant, natural, and casual.
So, who do you think you’re thinking of collaborating with next, if you can tell us about
it? Do you have any ideas?
Damien: I have a number of exciting surprises in store. I already possess tracks featuring talented individuals that are nearing completion. While I cannot disclose too much at this time, I can confirm that there will be contributions from members of the “Death” legacy. I live in Mexico, and as such, the scenes are somewhat separated. So, once a song is finished, I’m inclined to move forward and not dwell on minor details. It’s critical not to release material prematurely as timing is paramount in all aspects of life-the universe-and particularly in music. The right moments will arrive, and there will be more releases. The collaborations will continue to be diverse, and it will be curious to see what unfolds. Artists and listeners will find themselves in contexts or situations previously unknown to them, so there will be many more future collaborations. I wish I could disclose more, but it would spoil the surprise. And, before I reveal the names of these collaborators, I want to ensure they are comfortable with the extent of their involvement – whether they wish to be prominently featured or simply credited for their contribution.
Do you envision doing something like maybe Mystics of Tomorrow tour at some point?
Damien: I would like to do a “Tiny Desk Concerts” format first. Tours would be badass and would present an opportunity to bring talented individuals like Bud, who deserves better recognition, to the forefront.
A tour would be awesome, given sufficient budget, and I could assemble a talented core of musicians that are highly versatile, but at this time the “Tiny Desk Concerts” and similar format might offer a more relaxed low-stakes atmosphere. With „Tiny Desk Concert”, anyone would be able to view it, you don’t have to be performing for an audience, vocalists could step back, be background vocals. And, rather than tailoring the vocalist to the song, which is often done, we tailor the song to the vocalist. I think that something like a tiny desk concert would be enjoyable. And everyone could exchange instruments. So, it wouldn’t be too much worry about a venue, and live sound. To have something streamed annually or semi-annually with special guests would fun and hopefully easy.
I think you’ve mentioned you’re also open, like, for other bands who might want to, like,
record via Shake N Bake Records. Could you maybe tell me a little bit on how, if someone is
out there listening to our interview and, you know, maybe thinking, oh, what the heck, I
might want to check this one, how they should go about it?
Damien: The crucial aspect is embracing a revised mindset. As I mentioned, labels are evolving. Traditionally, one might expect a tour budget, a recording budget, and prominent placement in publications. However, I now view many labels as PR firms that also function as banks. They provide capital at an interest rate, establish a connection, but at a cost. If the financial returns aren’t met, the artist is, unfortunately, left without resources. I wouldn’t assert that they are genuinely performing a public service; they are not always aligned with the artist’s interests. Many labels are starting to assess artists in a manner akin to how grocery stores view employees – are they part of the company, or are they viewed merely as an expense? Therefore, an artist seeking to collaborate with Shake N Bake must adopt a contemporary perspective. The emphasis is on digital platforms, streaming, and accessibility. Payment for music is becoming less common. To generate income, the focus shifts to merchandising,
endorsements and product-placed sponsorships. I think all the artist would love to represent their favourite music brands in a manner that benefits artist AND brand. However, there’s little point in producing large quantities of unsold albums or apparel. With Shake N Bake, the approach is to embrace singles, and ensure the highest quality of music. I would welcome the opportunity to work with more artists. Currently, I collaborate with Waymaker, an old friend, and Bud Burke, another long-time acquaintance. I essentially convinced them to participate. I told them something like: “Guys, I need artists for my label. Don’t let that music you have go away. Get it out there. I’ll do the work.” We’d all would benefit from a stronger digital presence, however, I prioritize the quality of the music. When Waymaker sent me his music just to show me what “he’d been doing”, I was into it immediately. I had that reaction of hair standing up on my arm. And, I’ve always felt like in the Marvel multiverse we would be in a successful band together, somewhere. His vulnerability as a street kid showing-other sides of himself to others-isn’t comfortable, I was like “dude, don’t worry if it’s not metal, if it doesn’t fit the way people think of you. It’s real. This is YOU”. This is even MORE real because it wasn’t done with the expectation of anyone to hearing it, without the pressure to make an impression. For me, this is far more artistic than many things we experience these days. So, I persuaded Waymaker to release his music because it’s real. Bud Burke as well, though he’s a super-shredder, and I typically am not fan of those super types of players, Bud’s ability to infuse his personality into his playing is what I love. He is very lyrical with his shredder abilities, and sensible in that, though he’s got licks to throw around, his priority is always to make the music more interesting, and that sets him apart from the others who simply want to be noticed. His personality is one that has a diverse appreciation, beyond even music, and yet when he plays the guitar, you can hear all those parts of his personality coming through in his musical passages and phrases. This is what I told him: “You’ve got these songs and you’re not doing anything with them, if you’ll let me put ‘em out, I’ll love them like they’re my own.”
Thank you so much, Damien. Always a pleasure.
Damien: Thank you, Marta.
Check out the new single “From Beginning To Beginning”/Bud Burke from Shake N Bake
Records: https://open.spotify.com/track/419o2QQsDWpMFMOVBHhHaEWebsite
Website: https://www.shakenbakerecords.com/
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Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@ShakeNBakeRecords
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/01lW3vxuJQGsxlfKknMvFR
LinkTree: https://linktr.ee/ShakeNBakeRecords
Photos and Graphics credit of Damien Sisson.